I am dissapointed that after reading the blog and comments all you seem to want to on is the tone of what people say vs. the “meat” of my comments, especially the questioning of the perfect picture Harris seems to paint of “kissing dating goodbye.”

I certainly don’t see “all sorts of accusations” against Harris. I still question why Harris isn’t apparently willing to give a more balanced report of his approach now that he has observed first hand the problems it has caused. Asking if it is financial certainly is a valid question.

On your comment about SGM not retreating “from a failed progression of thought” I have personally seen SGM change course on various teachings to something new without admitting that what they were teaching in the past was wrong. Seeing this type of action, it sure sounds like the commenter has a valid point. One clear example is their move to Calvinism. This move was done without their admitting the change and saying they had it wrong in the past.

With regard to SGM Survivors, if there is sin and abuse going on within SGM and there appears to be if one reads that blog, then doesn’t the body of Christ need to know about this abuse? Have you read the Debra Baker story?

Are you sure you aren’t associated with SGM? Especially your first comment where you indicted the tone of what people wrote is typical SGM. That is when a member brings something up to a leader, the leader is quick to point out the “attitude problems” the member has rather than address the members concerns.

There are all sorts of accusations here that Joshua is motivated by his financial interest in the courtship movement and that he intentionally perpetuates something he himself believes is not correct. Additionally, any comment that imputes a motive to him is unbiblical because no man knows the mind of a man but the spirit that is within him.

Then there are the posts who blast all of SGM for things like “I’ve never seen them retreat from a failed progression of thought”. What an incredibly proud thing to say, as though you are the standard of what’s a failed progression of thought or not. God is the standard and we can hold up what someone says to the light of His Word. We cannot however begin berating brothers and sisters in Christ just because your experiences don’t line up with what you want or think is best.

Even the blog name “sgmsurvivors” is unbecoming of a true Christian. If your experience there was not to your liking then clearly you should move on but the Bible commands you to cover over the sins of another Christian so as to not publicize them beyond what is necessary.

I don’t have a dog in the fight. I have not even read IKDG. I am just concerned for you who appear to be letting something as inconsequential to the call of God in our lives as what particular method you use to find a spouse to be so divisive and bitter.

I would be curious to hear which posts you think have such a “disturbing” tone. I am sure Josh Harris mean well with his book but sometimes good intentions bring the wrong results. It is even sadder when one sees these wrong results and a person appears to remain silent as I see Josh Harris doing.

When I see someone who is misrepresenting how well something works including not sharing the problems, I am not sure nicely and “tenderly” I could say what I say.

Where did I accuse? There is a big difference between asking and accusing. Only God knows why Josh Harris is so silent about problems with his approach. Financial is certainly one option as well as it being hard to admit the approach that brought him to fame that he presented as a “perfect” alternative to dating isn’t exactly what he made it out to be. That can be hard and require humility.

Jesus wasn’t exactly the most “tender” when he rebuked the Pharisees. Paul wasn’t when he rebuked Peter.

This misrepresentation and oversell of a system can have disastrous affects on people’s life and the kingdom of God. It is sad that Josh Harris isn’t take the responsibility I feel he should for what he championed.

Complementing that process is our obligation to love one another deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. The point is that rather than broadcast someone’s sins we should do whatever we can to make their presence more discreet.

I did a book review of someone who clearly wrote his book as an opposing viewpoint of Joshua Harris’, but never slammed him, derided him or accused him of anything in the process. I don’t think the book was compelling, but I love that the brother remembered that Josh Harris is a child of the King even while he disagreed with him on one point of living the Christian life.

Pagans can love people they agree with. I would admonish you to let the world see how much you love someone that you disagree with and be so confused that they assume it is because the Love of Christ is in you.

Caroline – what a wonderful attitude in your post. Many of the best Christians of all time lived a single life to God’s glory.

Many amazing men and women of God have felt called to a single life, and it’s not necessarily just missionaries or Mother Teresa. I would hope, along with a progressive perspective on the relationship approaches of Christian men and women, that the church can stop being so freaked out by single people. There’s nothing morally or intrinsically wrong with a person who doesn’t get married or produce children. It would be nice if someone would write more books about that.

This was interesting to know, as someone who read “Boy Meets Girl” but avoided “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” out of sheer self-defense. Thanks!

This sends a message-
1. He really thinks women would be led on by this.
2. He isn’t friendly toward women.
3. He doesn’t like me.
4. He doesn’t want to be my friend.

This is yet another attempt to sneek in under the radar legalism on how people should meet their mates or date.

Then at 26 I have other Christians slamming me for not following their made up legalistic rules they read in this book or not pretending to be a cowboy because of the book “Wild at Heart”. As though I still need people to tell me how to date or be a man.

These same people who by the way don’t see any purpose for the book “Freedom of a Christian” (very short read actually) because they are too busy finding more books with more rules about their Christian life instead of embracing the freedom of Christ.

The sad thing is that you will always find this book or “Wild at Heart” or “God wants you to have lots and lots of money” or some other fad book but I’ll bet if I walk into 10 different Christian bookstores, I doubt that I would find one copy (on hand) of Freedom of a Christian. Much less anything from Calvin or Walther or St. Augustine or anyone else who could actually read greek and hebrew.

Without going into a complete rant, I basically have a very different view on Christian life then a lot of people.

I tried the emails provided on the landing page but they keep getting bounced back.

could you email me please: john@spiritualtyranny.com

Much appriciated.

John Immel

In the near furture I will be posting my own story that dealt in courtship/non-dating. Glad we found each other in the blogosphere!!

Savvy D
http://www.SavvySingleChristian.blogspot.com

Welcome to the blog and thanks for your post. YOu might want to see my blog entry about one size fitting all.

Something that was designed for teenagers (and works well for that age group) doesn’t mean it is best for all ages.